If you’ve wondered why there wasn’t an effective political Left in this county for the last ~60 years, buckle up.
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rileymat2
Does that include taking ownership stakes in companies?
iamnothere
And another branch (Third Way) publicly discussing how to undermine them.
queenkjuul
Lmao okay, name them for me please
angoragoats
The name of the party is the Democratic Party.
I am aware of Mamdani using that phrase approximately 5 years before he ran for NYC mayor. Who else has said that?
leonixyz
Being far-left is now officially terrorism. Now they will start move the bar one step at a time, one organization at a time, to cut off every political movement that does not align.
xvokcarts
That's exactly what's happening with the far-right and nazism labeling (in the EU the nazi label is worse compared to terrorist, also legally).
And a bit rich that it mentions its reasoning included the Kirk assassination. Kirk was starting to make noise about the Epstein stuff, so Trump personally called him and told him to knock it off. Shortly after he was assassinated.
rurban
No, they decided only on support for the Kurdish PKK, which is only under right-wing states a terrorist org. Everyone knows they are not one for decades.
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Timon3
IMO this comment perfectly exemplifies the process that advances society's slide towards fascism:
> Just like being far-right was.
This is simply not true. Just like so many lies repeated ad nauseam by the right-wing media machine, it has convinced a huge part of the US population that the opposition genuinely wants to hurt and destroy them, so now they have no problem with doing the same to them. A terrifyingly huge portion of them is actively and gleefully applauding every time their sides manages to "own the libs", right down to citizens being shot while exercising their rights.
If you look back at Nazi propaganda against Jewish people, it's the same pattern. They convinced their followers of so many terrible things this minority group is doing just to hurt and spite "the common man", until said followers were ready to do all those things to them.
When a vice president tells people that minority groups are eating pets and him literally admitting that it's a lie doesn't dissuade his voters from believing it to be true, you have all the ingredients necessary to enable the next Holocaust.
selfhoster1312
Nitpicking here, but nazi repression was not only against jewish people. Also against other claimed inferior races (eg. tsigans), but also handicapped people, homosexuals... and very relevant to this thread, communists and anarchists.
Timon3
Yeah, good point. I only mentioned Jewish people because that's where I've seen the strong similarities between the propaganda then and now, but I'm sure there's also plenty of examples for the other groups that were targeted.
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swed420
If you're referring to Cuba, then the US is definitely the terrorist in that relationship.
TiredOfLife
xUSSR
sigmarule
To be precise, you were governed by a group of people who together constituted a political party that held far-left views and was branded as such.
192976
Will they be invited to the White House in 10 years like this "Global Terrorist" was?
They really don't have to call a group far left or far right in their justification, because it sounds like weak credibility in search of social support. They could just call them a criminal organization seeking directly, or indirectly, to contribute to violence for political ends, which does not sound like the case here.
bix6
But if they label it far left then they get to rile their idiot supporters up.
tumetab1
> They could just call them a criminal organization seeking directly, or indirectly, to contribute to violence for political ends
Most jurisdictions will prosecute you under terrorism laws for that.
The "adjectives" (far-left) are there just explain to the public what kind of terrorism they are talking about.
vkou
How is a newspaper calling for war, or a billionaire sponsoring a warhawk not meet the same criteria?
beej71
> because it sounds like weak credibility in search of social support
And it works!
BLKNSLVR
Nice to know these guys exist, might have to make use of some of their services.
UJ-FLD-ScrTr
From a European perspective, one has long wondered what this government actually considers NOT to be terrorism. The violent storming of a national symbol of democracy is clearly not one of them.
This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
lenkite
> From a European perspective, one has long wondered what this government actually considers NOT to be terrorism.
The definition hasn't really changed regardless of the U.S. President: If you kneel to current U.S. Administration policy, then you can be a mass-murdering, torturing, rapist head-chopper and you will still be a "good guy".
If you object to whatever the current US policy is and are small fry, then you are a bad terrorist begging to be eliminated by the American Military Machine. You become a valuable elimination target of US intel/war-corpo investment.
deaux
"I am a freedom fighter, you are a rebel, and he is a terrorist."
Going against the US regime means you're a terrorist. If you instead bomb a "terrorist nation", i.e. "a nation not aligned with the US regime"'s schoolgirls, you're a freedom fighter.
dormento
A freedom fighter, a rebel and a terrorist walk into a bar.
They're all the same person.
(How long till the world declares the US a "terrorist nation"?)
queenkjuul
> How long till the world declares the US a "terrorist nation"?
When and if they do they will be many decades late
red_admiral
Terrorism has always meant the other guy's goons, as opposed to my freedom fighters.
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tkel
The word "terrorist" is almost always used in a propaganda context. There's a good book you should check out, that surveys media mentions and provides hard statistical evidence for this: Manufacturing Consent.
bit-anarchist
It isn't a cope. They are pointing out the fact that the state has been used against the opposition multiple times in the past by authoritarians, by both the US (this goes beyond DT's gov too) and socialist governments (although they often use the term "reactionaries" instead).
jauntywundrkind
Who did Obama sick the DOJ on? Who did Biden? How? Did his lackies at the FCC bully media companies, threaten to take them off the air for what their comedians did? What noblogs.org did they go after? Did they tell everyone the un-cities were violent overrun places that needed that national guard sent in? Did Obama's personal lawyer get to run the DOJ?
The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty. They aren't the same rank hypocrites who crow and cry foul every chance they get, only to violate those same principles as soon as it's convenient.
> The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty.
The “left” as a whole, whether you mean left ultras or left-liberals, generally do not respect individual freedoms in my experience. They redefine liberty to exclude rights they don’t believe in (the right does as well).
Polls have shown that the public as a whole, including the left, is becoming more hostile towards many individual liberties, especially freedom of speech. Even more concerning, support for political violence is gradually climbing.
Socialists are a mixed bag. In my experience, the more educated they are, the more they publicly espouse support for individual liberties, at least during academic discussions. But there’s a disturbing trend of “joking” about rights violations in casual conversation, mirroring the same trend on the right. Still, the DSA (for instance) seems to be gradually improving its official stances, although there is still work to do.
Everyone knows that the right is terrible on civil liberties, but that’s no reason to excuse the left.
"In late September 2017, an exhaustive report by the Treasury Department's inspector general found that from 2004 to 2013, the IRS used both conservative and liberal keywords to choose targets for further scrutiny, blunting claims that the issue had been an Obama-era partisan scandal.[1][2] The 115-page report confirmed the findings of the prior 2013 report that some conservative organizations had been unfairly targeted, but also found that the pattern of misconduct had been ongoing since 2004 and was non-partisan in nature."
queenkjuul
You have a lot to learn about Obama and Biden lol
No, they were not a brazen and stupid as trump, but they violated nearly as many civil liberties.
Obama executed a US citizen on terror charges without a trial, for starters
wmeredith
> one has long wondered what this government actually considers NOT to be terrorism
Anyone willing to line their pockets, it seems.
TitaRusell
America is one of the few countries that honor their traitors with statues.
senderista
I guess there are a few statues in Finland honoring the Red Guard?
Arodex
>This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
Don't worry, Trump and Musk will export their model to Europe. They guys and gals who were easily bought by Russia when it had money will very gladly side with the richest and gaudiest men on Earth.
tialaramex
The American Right are spending a surprising amount of resources on fucking over Europe. Once piece of good news about a future US economic crash is that there'd be no money left to do that. After Elon gets a tax bill from a new progressive administration whose answer to "You can't tax your way out of America's problems" is either "Well lets at least try" or even "If the effect is just to get rid of the billionaires we're OK with that too" your local racists may find he's too distracted to wire them some more cash for their antics.
But maybe that's just wishful thinking, it's not as though there weren't fascists about, they just didn't have the same funding before.
amarcheschi
>Their claim about Rose City Antifa seems to be false, however, conflating Rose City Antifa with another project called Rose City Counterinfo.
Can't make it real
deaux
Right, so after already ramping up mass surveillance to the level of China [0], now the gap in freedom of political expression gap is also rapidly closing. Soon, there will be no gaps left, and it will just be worse in every single way imaginable. Until that day though, people will just keep pointing to those remaining gaps, one at a time. So that they can conveniently be taken away.
If you're not American, and have even a shred of moral fiber left in your body, I really recommend you don't come here. What awaits you in terms of Silicon Valley jobs is a choice of AI labs, AI wrapper startups, and Andreessen Horowitz-funded startups; this is 99% of fresh SV jobs. Beauties like Flock, Toka (hacking security cam footage), Doublespeed (AI influencer account botting), Civitai (30k deepfake models of real women), Cluely (cheat on everything), Coverd (betting on your bills), Cheddr (TikTok of sports betting), Ex-Human (have "adult" chats with bots mimicking underage celebs), and another hundred or so of such lovely products. All of these are a16z backed, and their tendrils are in every SV company out there. Stay in your country. If you're too thirsty for money to stay but still have some morals left, go to China, they're pretty much single-handedly driving the only thing left that gives humanity a chance of avoiding extinction; the transition to renewable energy.
You lost me at the "morals" and "go to China". a) have you ever worked there and b) did you forget what you wrote in your very first sentence?
__MatrixMan__
Or do come and start something new. Something meaningful. Show us how to build things that don't hurt each other, because we appear to have forgotten.
thrance
You can't fix capitalism from the inside...
__MatrixMan__
And how would you fix it from the outside?
Besides, it's only capitalism of you take on investors. You can charge money to solve a problem without summoning the demon.
thrance
> You can charge money to solve a problem without summoning the demon.
Then someone willing to "summon the demon" will outgrow you and you'll end up working for them.
You can't fix capitalism period. The issue was never a lack of "good guys" building "meaningful things". The economic pressures always push out the naive in favor of the ruthless. And wealth gets concentrated in fewer and fewer hands until a class of oligarchs emerges that is powerful and psychopathic enough to take over the government and dismantle democracy for personal gains.
Happened in Germany, happening in America right now.
__MatrixMan__
Really, no way out? We'll be practicing capitalism until we go extinct?
physhster
a̵n̵t̵i̵-̵a̵n̵t̵i̵fa is just fa, no?
wmeredith
No. Just because I am not against people golfing, does not making me a golfer.
morkalork
If you're hunting down and prosecuting anti-golfers for their beliefs then you're at least a golfer-sympathizer. A golf club licker if you will.
MSFT_Edging
Last time I checked, Golf's central tenants don't require mass dehumanization, ethnic scapegoating, and violent intimidation tactics.
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tastyface
Is the leftism with us in the room right now?
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text0404
Ah yes, a reference to the notable leftists Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump.
ButlerianJihad
Can I have a cut of the rent from those tenants? Have they paid their security deposit already?
throwawaypath
I copy and pasted the OP, ask him about the misspelling.
Arodex
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.
sigmarule
It makes you okay with golfing, or not care enough about the impacts and implications of golfing to form an opinion.
It's like they say: if there is a golfer at a table and 10 other people talking with him, you have 11 golfers.
wl
Assuming this is a serious question: There are people who are not themselves fascists who object to the direct action tactics (read: violence, vandalism) sometimes employed under the banner of "antifa."
MSFT_Edging
It's always curious to me how property damage weighs the same or worse than violence against real humans.
I've had people tell me with a straight face that broken windows make one group just as bad as the group threatening violence based on ethnic lines. I don't get it.
SpicyLemonZest
If someone were to come to my workplace and smash a window, for example, I think it's pretty fair to interpret that as a threat that they might smash the people working there next.
inigyou
do you think someone who sprays paint in a military jet engine is about to force open your mouth and spray you full of paint?
8note
itll make more sense if you consider that the right wing has been selling the idea that there is only one fredom/right - property ownership under capitalism
and with that hayek setup, the property isore important than the life. you can be tortured, imprisoned and murdered, but as long as you still own a factory, you are a free man.
its silly, buts its the driving idea behind western culture for the past 40-50 years or so
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MSFT_Edging
The Weather Underground committed over a dozen bombings back in the day and the only deaths were WU members from a failed explosive. The wikipedia page has a table of right-wing terror attacks while the page for left-wing terror mostly describes guerilla groups in civil wars.
Generally no, Antifa is not a violent organization in the same way that violent white-nationalist/neonazi groups are violent.
Antifa hasn't shot up a church/synagogue/mosque. Followers of modern fascist sects have.
You're either willfully ignorant or purposefully biased to consider them on the same playing field.
47282847
“Antifa has…” is like saying “Nerds have” or “Hackers have”. It is really only a broad label, either assigned by one self or by others. I know people who are strictly against any violence and still proud to use Antifa “branding”. Others wouldn’t want to be called Antifa but are called that by others.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs.
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orwin
Fascists are just against the rule of law. They designed a multi tiered system where they have more rights than the one they judge inferior. An antifascist is someone who fights against fascists, either violently or, more often, through documenting of fascist groups, taking pictures and counter protesting.
__MatrixMan__
These people are easy to find. Listen for people who are acting like a hero because they boycott Amazon or some other with-your-wallet kind of activism, and suggest nonviolent sabotage. They clutch their pearls so hard, each becomes a tiny neutron star, and you can then triangulate their position in real space based on the gravitational waves from those collapses.
senderista
Pol Pot and Stalin were self-proclaimed anti-fascists, so opposing them makes one a fascist?
wyre
Yes. Or pro-fa.
woodpanel
Judging from noblog's opening statement of "connecting radical people" together with a welcoming bomb, I'd suspect they are very welcoming to open, peaceful discussions, particulary with those holding opposing views.
> "When fascism returns, it will not say, 'I am fascism.' No, it will say, 'I am anti-fascism.'"
– Ignazio Silone
bediger4000
Where is the NRA in all this? I mean, the NRA and their acolytes have spent about 40 years insisting that private armory ownership is the last defense against an authoritarian government overreach. Here we are, this is the overreach. Are the US' well-regulated militias gearing up as we speak?
krapp
Who do you think most of the NRA members and gun owners voted for? Their definition of "authoritarian government overreach" is "A Democrat is in the White House."
>Are the US' well-regulated militias gearing up as we speak?
If they are, it's because ICE is looking for recruits.
JuniperMesos
Cryptocurrency advocates are the more useful ideological group in this situation I think - the main way that this US government designation harms Autistici/Inventati is by cutting them off from legitimate fiat payment rails controlled by the US government. These are exactly the payment rails that Bitcoin, Monero, and other decentralized cryptocurrencies exist to bypass. Anyone trying to make it easier for people to buy things with bitcoin and avoid US KYC/AML laws while doing so, is making it easier for this ruling to be irrelevant to Autistici/Inventati.
duxup
They don't really care about any of that. The NRA has been a slush fund for it's leadership for a while.
8note
no, theyve been insisting that gun companies get rich. thats the only real point of the NRA and second amendment crowd. a demand to a right to a business model
shevy-java
I think it is the reverse situation - the US government is a global terrorist. Canada noticed this too recently again, when the USA tried to sneakily put in abusive clauses that would take advantage of Canadians and put them as second class citizens in the new trade agreement. Trump acts as a mafia and now we know that "The Art of the Deal" is a mafia slogan.
SlightlyLeftPad
“They are either the hero or the victim, but never the perpetrator.” - Narcissist ethos
“Narcissism has more in common with self-hatred than with self-admiration.” - Christopher Lasch
“The four core pillars of narcissism, as defined by clinical psychologist Dr. Ramani Durvasula, are a lack of empathy, grandiosity, a chronic sense of entitlement, and a constant need for admiration and validation” - America Psychology Association (possibly a global terrorist organization)
frm88
More dark triad because pure narcissicm misses the transactional behaviour and the psychopathy where a clear perception of reality is sometimes muddled.
All three dark triad traits are believed to be conceptually distinct, although empirical evidence shows them to be overlapping. They are associated with a callous–manipulative interpersonal style.[8]
Narcissism is characterized by grandiosity, pride, egotism, and a lack of empathy.[9]
Machiavellianism is characterized by manipulativeness, indifference to morality, lack of empathy, and a calculated focus on self-interest.[10][11]
Psychopathy is characterized by continuous antisocial behavior, impulsivity, selfishness, callous and unemotional traits (CU),[12] and remorselessness.[13]
Yes I think most of those boxes are checked. I’m still somewhat fascinated/baffled by the fact that many people seem to paradoxically associate these traits with “good leadership.” It’s a tale as old as time.
impure
If you had any doubts about digital sovereignty or leaving the USD movements...
tim333
The article seems misleading implying it's due to the ""collective’s “far-left” politics"" which seem odd as far left isn't illegal.
If you look at the govt announcement it cites:
>multiple high-profile instances of breaking into defense infrastructure and British military installations, and causing millions of dollars’ worth of damage to military equipment. Palestine Action has promoted its violent, criminal, and terrorist acts on social media, encouraging the use of similar tactics internationally, including within the United States and along the U.S.-Mexican border.
So it's breaking in and destroying stuff which is illegal, not the far left.
lesostep
The problematic thing is the implication that holding a similar view automatically makes you a part of the same organization.
Terrorist groups are more traditionally defined as an organized groups that use terrorism as a military tactic to achieve their goals.
noblogs.org never used such tactics nor supported them.
If we call anyone a terrorist, if they have at least one view similar to those who did terrorist acts, we only need 2 quite specific terrorist acts to cover all earths population.
tim333
The action is against Autistici Inventati, not noblogs. The govt argument is
>Autistici Inventati [...] exclusively provides its services to vetted individuals, collectives, and groups it perceives to be aligned with its ideology, including to sanctioned terrorist organizations...
queenkjuul
Lmao the Italian blogging platform has nothing to do with Palestine Action, did you even read the article?
Or do you even pay attention? "Far left" has been illegal in the past and trump clearly wants it so again
If you want to understand a situation it sometimes makes sense to state the facts?
inigyou
You mean the excuses.
Maybe. But I don't think so. It literally doesn't matter what reasons the government said, and the reasons the government said have no relation to facts or reality. What does matter is that the government doesn't like this group and put them on a certain list.
queenkjuul
And the reason given for the Italian collective was their far left politics...
According to that, they provided services to the guys that cut off parts of Berlin from the power grid, that caused 1 fatality.
IANAL but the common understanding of the situation would be: You can't as an ISP prevent malicious actors from using your service, but you do can assist the government - in this case the German - to hand over the data to help assist law enforcement. If state-department's claims are true, did noblogs.org do so?
amarcheschi
In italy they were even arrested but always cleared of what they were accused. I don't believe the US gov did a better job investigating them either
inigyou
The US is the one making the accusation, and I guarantee that they didn't assist the US.
The digital markets act makes liability pretty clear. Basically a takedown notice law.
samueljjlopez
Cool.
So this is the US government acting at the behest of neonazis: "
According to one anti-fascist research group, “Some of the most well-known NoBlogs sites belong to researchers who solely report on far-right hate and radicalization, never doing anything aside from showing you what exists.”
"
in their newest crusade generally championing the concept of fascism (which is what you get when you declare yourself anti-anti-fascist, as should be immediately evident to anyone with the ability to follow basica boolean logic).
No, it is pro free speech. It is only when you censor or insult or criticize far right that free speech gets in danger.
zombot
Never heard of them before. Streisand effect.
bsian
Trump is completely torching his term for Israel.
Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG". If this is not ZOG, then what is it?
mindslight
"ZOG" claims way too much, is inactionable, and ultimately just feeds the reactionary dumpster fire that has created our current predicament. "Please don't release the real Epstein files Mr Bibi Sir" suffices.
lynndotpy
Right? It's really concerning how much traction "ZOG" seems to be getting.
It's literally true that most of the US government is Zionist. But "Zionist-Occupied Government" is an antisemitic conspiracy theory used by white supremacists with specific and incorrect beliefs about how Zionism works in the US and how it formed into what we're all facing today.
At least flat-earthers get a useful locally-true approximation of the shape of the Earth from their conspiracy theory.
inigyou
Is "ZOG" not a locally-true approximation of the shape of the USG?
mindslight
"Locally true" doesn't help when you need to deal with a much larger-scoped problem, right?. "ZOG" locally suceeds at making you feel like you've got it all figured out, but it's self defeating in the bigger picture. Talk about AIPAC all day long. Talk about congress critters of all political stripes tacitly approving Grump's Iran debacle. Talk about how Epstein seems to have been a politically protected honey trap operation. Talk about Israeli intelligence's well established pattern of no-holds-barred meddling in other countries.
... but balling that all up into "ZOG" just gives one a simplistic rabbit hole where "everything clicks" (ie it proves too much), and mostly written off by anyone else. And if it were to start being widely accepted, it will just fuel a reactionary dumpster fire like every broad-brush populist message inevitably does.
inigyou
The earth isn't locally flat either, because there are mountains. Nor is it a sphere, because there are mountains.
mindslight
It's fucking heads they win, tails we lose. The only way we can win is to walk a narrow line, and in the presence of populism that is seemingly impossible. How much support for Grump was because "Biden supports genocide" ? Of course it's hard to tell how much was genuine grassroots vs dead Internet, but surely there were some voters that fell for it. Congratulations, you played yourself.
mschuster91
> Trump is completely torching his term for Israel.
That is utter bullshit and you know it.
The US government has always been deathly afraid of anything left of what would be "conservative social democrats" in Europe - remember McCarthyism? The US certainly does not need Israel to tell it to hunt down leftists.
> Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG".
Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
bsian
The link makes it clear (at least to me) that they are looking for Palestine supporters and not leftists in general.
SimianSci
> Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
This perceived overlap of antisemitism and anti-zionism has been shown many times to be a false equivalence.
It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
As with many Fascist movements it is very much in the interest of those who follow the a Supremacy movement to conflate opposition of their movement with persecution of their culture.
mschuster91
> It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
No. Zionism at its core is just the opinion that there needs to be a state of Israel, to serve as a "last safe haven" for all Jews in the world.
inigyou
And what is "a state of Israel"? Obviously it needs to meet some criteria to count as a state of Israel. If I bought a farm and called it Israel it wouldn't meet the criteria.
Some of those criteria are that it must include Jerusalem, and it must be a Jewish ethnostate.
throw398633
Israel is more ethnically diverse than many European and Middle Eastern countries.
mcmcmc
The disaster of the Iran war will be the legacy of Trump 2. A war that started because Netanyahu convinced Trump there was an imminent attack and fed us false intel on nuclear capabilities. That sounds like torching it to me.
ZOG as a conspiracy is nuts but you can’t deny the influence AIPAC has on Congress. Zionists have a very powerful lobby. Then you have guys like Fetterman who are making Israel their core issue.
jmclnx
>Of course, Donald Trump’s successors could keep repressive policies like this in place, much as Joe Biden did.
This proves once again who runs the US Gov, it is not the voters but the ultra-rich.
mindslight
For voters to actually be in control, they would have to do straightforward things like reject the obviously terrible destructionist candidate in favor of the milquetoast corpo stooge. I would love to say it's as principled as "I chose the wrench" from Good Will Hunting. But from everything I've surmised it's that mass media propaganda is really strong - most people simply can't fit more than one thing in their head at once. Focus them on how bad A is and they will eagerly choose B all day long despite it being clearly worse.
A long time ago I had the realization that the primary information flow in democracy isn't the few bits from each citizen to the government, but rather it's from the candidates/parties to the people making them think they wanted any of the ensuing shit because they "chose" it. And I'd say Grumpism has thoroughly proven that out. The people who used to be your average conservatives are now radical reactionary destructionists, and if you nudge them to ponder their former values they wince at thinking too hard and then get angry at you.
Supermancho
If ranked voting wasn't being outlawed in various states, it might have started the US down the path of tearing down the miserable political duopoly.
heyitsmedotjayb
First they came for the communists
buellerbueller
Why is the Trump administration against anti-fascism? </s>
Edit: lol @ the guy claiming anti-fascists are "intolerant" while all of today's leading technofascists are crowing about how empathy is self-defeating. so, we are supposed to eschew empathy, unless it is for fascist ideals? sure, technofascists, whatever you say.
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bakies
Only intolerant opinions like white-supremacy, and they're a lot less violent then the right.
mschuster91
> intolerant of some opinions
You might want to read up on Karl Popper and the Paradox of Tolerance [1] as well as on some German history.
Don't give a single inch to fascists or you will get destroyed. Hell, just look at the sorry state of the current GOP after it let the Tea Party looners in. These guys and the "birthers" paved the ground for MAGA to enter the scene, and nowadays what used to be the "moderate" Republicans is all but gone. The new "moderate" are considered to be people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, just because they have broken with Trump.
If you want safety and prosperity, why vote in a convicted felon who pardoned thousands of insurrectionists who went on to reoffend and end up back in jail for violent offenses and crimes against children? Why vote for a moronic tariff plan that literally anyone could tell you would hurt the economy? Why vote for corruption and racial violence and sexual abuse? Why vote for a rapist who was best buds with Epstein?
inigyou
Can you give some examples of the woke/marxist crap?
Trump ran as a republican because he thought it would be easier to sway republicans to vote for him because they're sheeple, and he's on camera saying that and everyone just memory-holed it.
mindslight
Don't bother. "woke/marxist crap" is an obvious tell that they're delusional from a Facebook feed or similar. They will have plenty of examples because it obviously does exist, but it's ultimately just a strawman without much sway over the larger Democratic party - especially in the current context of how Republicans have gone all-in for con artist in chief and are currently running the show. As a centrist libertarian who had never in my life voted for a major party in a national election until 2020, I'm holding my nose and voting conservative (ie democrat) for the foreseeable future.
buellerbueller
If MAGA wants lower crime, why is MAGA kicking out immigrants? Immigrants commit crime at lower rates than citizens. [1]
If MAGA is pro-economy, why is MAGA kicking out immigrants? Immigrants are more entrepreneurial than US-born citizens. [2] [3]. Why the tariffs? Tariffs are a tax on American consumers.
The line of reasoning you present is just completely wrong. Is it because MAGA are wrong/ignorant? Or because MAGA are racist and fascists?
EDIT, sadly the reply is flagged, so I will post my response to it below:
>Don't conflate immigrants with illegal immigrants first off.
The analyses I presented don't make a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants; the facts they state still stand.
>Second, we KNOW a lot of those people they're picking up committed crimes. Murder, rape, etc. They all have charges and are queued for deportation.
And if your concern is about crime, you would want the law enforcement resources that are being used to pick up immigrants to be used to pick up US-born citizens, because US born citizens are more criminal.
>Illegal immigrants are a strain on the healthcare system, education system, policing, social services. It's a simple fact that every country knows.
Wrong again. Immigrants use less of all of those social resources, except public school. Public schools are strained because us-born students are more likely to attend private schools, and public schools are generally funded on a student headcount basis. [4] [5] [6] [7]
>And Tariffs are a consumption tax on if they buy those foreign products. I'll take a trade war if it means getting drug prices and many other trade inequalities down (which he did). Turns out our allies are bigger assholes than our adversaries.
Typically, as reported, there aren't many American substitutes for the foreign-produced goods that have been taxed on tariffs. Just to use a very recent example, American cars now have their canadian auto parts slapped with a 50% tariff. Am I supposed to source my own american parts and then build my own car? What the hell is wrong with you?
>But nah, Democrats must be right about everything. It's impossible to be wrong. Republicans are evil and ignorant is what you probably hear.
Living in a red state, and having many MAGA family members, I am sympathetic to listening to the arguments made by MAGA. However, their claims fall apart when you start looking at facts and data, as I believe I have amply demonstrated through our back-and-forth.
> Don't conflate immigrants with illegal immigrants first off.
When that entirely what MAGA is doing. I always wondered how they had these numbers for supposedly illegal immigrants and everytime I look into it the number conveniently lines up with the legal immigrants and legal asylum seekers.
Or that time Loomer said the alligators at Alligator Alcatraz were getting 65 million meals which is conveniently the Hispanic population in the US.
These people think that just because they don’t like these other people, those other people are here illegally, and then they claim they get no due process either.
theultdev
Loomer doesn't speak for me, and no idea what you're talking about.
I have no problems with legal immigrants. I married into a first generation family of immigrants, and like everyone else my ancestors were immigrants to this country.
It does a disservice to conflate the two. Immigrants worked hard to be here, illegal immigrants are a drain on everyone, including legal immigrants.
lovich
How many illegal immigrants do you think are in the United States? You can round to the million.
buellerbueller
>illegal immigrants are a drain on everyone
instead of assertions, facts please
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inigyou
The government just shut down processing of legal immigration applications, so yes actually, Trump only wants illegal immigrants, no legal ones.
theultdev
It's a temporary pause in INTERVIEWS, not the entire process. The pause is to train people to analyze whether that person would be dependent on public services.
Unfortunately our public services are overloaded by illegal immigrants, this is needed.
And what does that have to do with GP conflating stats meant for immigrants with illegal immigrants?
soulofmischief
Your situational awareness would improve remarkably if you would stop taking everything your favorite politicians say at face value and assume malicious intent until proven otherwise.
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soulofmischief
There is no point in engaging with you because you're not currently capable of having a serious political conversation with your current approach. Ergo, your approach needs modification.
Simply regurgitating my response back to me and claiming my own situational awareness is the problem is not the flex you think it is.
You're revealing your malformed politics by suggesting I have a "side". I can imagine what "side" you think I'm on. Grow up. There are a lot of serious things going on today and we need to take them seriously. You can do better.
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brettermeier
Why downvoted? It IS a fascist regime you have there in your 1st world shitshow. Get over it and name it as it is.
Hizonner
Probably for its use of the "TESCREAL" slur. Which it isn't even using accurately, since most people in basically all of the groups in "TESCREAL" think the administration sucks.
buellerbueller
The ones with money actively support this administration, and that's all that matters in latter-day American democracy: the ability to fund campaigns and buy political favors.
Pictured in the link: zick, pichai, musk, cook, bezos all AT TRUMP'S INAUGURATION. Not pictured, but still a supporter: Thiel.
cdrnsf
It's an acronym or neologism. The groups comprising it are often cult like, but I also don't view that as a controversial statement.
Hizonner
It's a slur. It was coined to be used pejoratively, it is in fact only used pejoratively, and the people it's used to describe reject it.
It's also overgeneralized to the point where it may not point at any useful shared characteristics at all, but that's not what makes it a slur.
cdrnsf
Is characterizing them as cultists also a slur then? Or calling out the outsized, malign impact they're having? Working a job in tech shouldn't require an adherence to the founder's quasi-religious beliefs about uploading their brain, inventing god or colonizing a dead rock.
Hizonner
> Is characterizing them as cultists also a slur then?
In the original sense, probably yes. In the more current sense, no.
The original sense was something like "unanswerable libel, especially around group characteristics". The most common present sense is closer to something like "disparaging epithet aimed at a group, meant to have universalized negative and/or libellous connotations". A slur in this sense roughly means "a member of this group, which, I chose this particular word as a way of reminding you, makes the person despicable and omniwrong regardless of anything else". That's what "pejorative" means.
If you call TESCREAL, or a component of it, a "cult", you're first evoking the idea that anybody who falls under "TESCREAL" umbrella is already bad (as all right-thinking folk already perceive). Then you're perhaps proposing or emphasizing a particular way everybody should think they're bad (it's a cult)".
It's also wrong and dumb. Some of the components of "TESCREAL" may have shared weird beliefs, and even shared weird social rituals. That's not what a cult is, not even close. Not in modern speech outside of academic history and folklore. And even if they were cults, they would not all be the same cult.
> Or calling out the outsized, malign impact they're having?
That kind of frothing is a better example of the original sense, if still not of the new sense. Vague imprecations that can't be defended against.
Nobody identifies with "TESCREAL". If you look at all the people who do identify with any of the labels that go into it, you end up with a pretty diverse group. It's even possible that that diverse group has more fascists in it than there are in the general population. Fringe groups tend to have fringe members who are members of other fringe groups. But fascism is neither a majority characteristic nor a defining one.
By the way, "fascist" itself is a slur when used to mean "anybody whose politics I don't like in certain ways", or when used to imply that fascists are universally bad or wrong in some way not directly related to their fascism.
"Fascist" is not (usually) a slur when applied to say, Elon Musk. He's actually in the group; his publicly avowed politics are largely compatible with Mussolini's version (with probably some minor quibbles about business independence)... and even more compatible with Umberto Eco's definition, which is what a lot of people go for these days. More importantly, when people call Musk a fascist, they are pretty clearly calling him out for the particular stuff he has personally said or done to earn that particular label, not about some unrelated issue. And most of them are doing it in conjunction with saying, or at least alluding to, something identifiable and substantive about policies, not just throwing it out there in an unrelated context.
If you were arguing with Musk about the best flavor of ice cream, and you suddenly came out with "What do you know about ice cream, anyway, you fascist", then you'd be using it more as a slur.
As another comparison, if you called Musk a "rockspider", that would be a slur. The word carries specific meaning; beyond marking "a member of this group", it adds "of which, I chose to use this particular word as a way of reminding you, you are supposed to automatically dislike all members". Also, insofar as it does have a well-defined meaning in terms of who falls in the group, you'd obviously be stretching to apply it to him, which would make it especially obvious that you were trying to use it as a per se insult. Actually I think he may be far enough outside the group that the insult wouldn't even land; no actual Boer ancestry, and too upper class to boot. I'm not up on South African slang.
astrange
TESCREAL is a word meaning "a bunch of unrelated groups that Timnit Gebru thinks are nerds", who are not really aligned with the administration.
Nerds using untold wealth to inflict fringe beliefs on societies at scale can do plenty of harm.
astrange
Since the groups are unrelated, they don't actually have consistent wealth levels or belief. It's literally just a list of random people she doesn't like.
tastyface
Why? Because HN is unironically full of dyed-in-the-wool fascists these days.
Maybe working under ruthless, hierarchical corporate structures all your life breaks your brain a little.
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forestrywat
More related than dupe, as this article includes a statement from the group being labeled terrorist.
ChrisArchitect
Same discussion. Statement shared over there. No need to split up the discussion.
layer8
I submit that “dupe” is a misleading misnomer if the submission does not link to the same content.
1vuio0pswjnm7
"I submit that "dupe" is a misleading misnomer if the submission does not link to the same content"
Imagine every time you make a submission the same commenter submits a reply with only a different thread URL, no title, no story URL, and the misnomer "[dupe]"
But the story URLs are different, not duplicates
It makes no sense
This site has constant repetition of URLs, topics and comments
It has 250+ pages of active stories at any one time. That's potentially 250+ different discussions
There is nothing in the design to prevent "duplication", nothing in the guidelines, and nothing in the proactive moderation
HN is described as a news aggregator. It should be expected in a news aggregator, users may submit stories by different authors published at different URLs offering different coverage of the same news topics. If the site operator wanted to prevent this for some reason, it could. HN does not
It seems the algorithm actually promotes such stories. Hence this sub-thread
Discussion on HN is generally highly repetitive, unoriginal and filed with meme-like, and sometimes toxic, comments. Many folks complain about it, others might like
it. Every user is different. It's not for any one user to determine what any other user should or should not see; readers can make up their own minds
The majority of HN users do not participate in "discussion". They either read the stories and/or the replies. Some might only visit HN periodically. Perhaps they are not following HN discussions, they have no idea what has been discussed earlier and no time to find out or reason to care. The majority of HN stories have zero replies, i.e., no "discussion". It stands to reason that some users read the stories, i.e., the news, irrespective of "discussion". Upvotes on these stories are potential evidence; unless these users are just upvoting titles
Alleged "duplication" of discussion is irrelevant in these submissions because there is no discussion. Stories are not just "discussion topics". They are news, for readers who are interested in reading news
Finally, (real) duplicate URLs are commonly found in submissions that never get labeled "[dupe]". These are explicitly allowed on a discretionary basis. The "[dupe]" tag is inconsistently applied and cannot be relied on
ChrisArchitect
Yeah, every time, because you know what you're doing.
Nothing to do with the urls, but the duplicate discussion topics. The site in fact does not have constant repetition of URLs, topics and comments (within similar timeframe). 250+ active discussions. All unique.
Stuff moves pretty fast around here and you can miss it. It's more about keeping things fresh and not repeating discussions over and over. And additionally stopping some of us from having to see the same story over and over.
Nothing in the design because that's what mods are for. Mods, and submitters looking out for the well-being of the site!
Your repeated submissions amounted to spamming the same topic while most coverage brings nothing new to the discussion that warrants a separate thread. Why split up the conversation only to have it all duplicated and impact the 'freshness' of the site with discussions already had hours to days earlier?
If you've been around enough it's weird that you're not clearer on this. Striving to keep the feed fresh and discussion together helps us all, you could do better to contribute that way.
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lopsotronic
What are some big unchecked violent acts from the Radical American Left the last few decades? I'm making a big list and don't want to leave any of them out.
polski-g
Bombing pregnancy centers. Sabatoging rail lines. Carrying out assassination attempts on federal officers. Attempting to burn police officers alive after chaining the doors shut. Lynchings of Horace Lorenzo Anderson and Antonio Mays Jr. Attempts to crash police helicopters with laser attacks.
insane_dreamer
sorry, I missed the news about the radical left violently trying to overturn election results by storming the Capitol, killing an officer, and threatening to kill members of the government; maybe you could link to it?
And not over any good cause either, just violence for violence sake, no principles, no stakes.
These people arrested trying to assassinate 47? Either right or neutral. The presidents own people.
The right as always is desperately relying on projection. Their media systems blare that the cities are unlivable hell, that social order is breaking down, that antifa is burning cities down. The pitiful lies to deluded base, low engagement that they are, happy to be baited, laps it up. The right are insurrectionist psychos, are anti-social maniacs deluded and violent, cheered on by fascist maniac leaders intent on bedlam and strife.
rc5150
insane progressive policies like giving people access to healthcare and a living wage? got it.
I'd be angry if I wasn't so disappointed how you and millions of others who think like you can be utterly allergic to logic, but I'm not angry. I pity you. I pity you because you're a victim of fascist brainwashing. It must make you feel so helpless to have to ideologically align with a child rapist and his cronies.
I am aware of Mamdani using that phrase approximately 5 years before he ran for NYC mayor. Who else has said that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSPM-7
And a bit rich that it mentions its reasoning included the Kirk assassination. Kirk was starting to make noise about the Epstein stuff, so Trump personally called him and told him to knock it off. Shortly after he was assassinated.
> Just like being far-right was.
This is simply not true. Just like so many lies repeated ad nauseam by the right-wing media machine, it has convinced a huge part of the US population that the opposition genuinely wants to hurt and destroy them, so now they have no problem with doing the same to them. A terrifyingly huge portion of them is actively and gleefully applauding every time their sides manages to "own the libs", right down to citizens being shot while exercising their rights.
If you look back at Nazi propaganda against Jewish people, it's the same pattern. They convinced their followers of so many terrible things this minority group is doing just to hurt and spite "the common man", until said followers were ready to do all those things to them.
When a vice president tells people that minority groups are eating pets and him literally admitting that it's a lie doesn't dissuade his voters from believing it to be true, you have all the ingredients necessary to enable the next Holocaust.
https://2009-2017.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/05/209499.htm
Jolly good fellow.
Most jurisdictions will prosecute you under terrorism laws for that.
The "adjectives" (far-left) are there just explain to the public what kind of terrorism they are talking about.
And it works!
This doesn't exactly make one want to spend their next vacation in the USA – even though, admittedly, we have our own problems here.
The definition hasn't really changed regardless of the U.S. President: If you kneel to current U.S. Administration policy, then you can be a mass-murdering, torturing, rapist head-chopper and you will still be a "good guy".
If you object to whatever the current US policy is and are small fry, then you are a bad terrorist begging to be eliminated by the American Military Machine. You become a valuable elimination target of US intel/war-corpo investment.
Going against the US regime means you're a terrorist. If you instead bomb a "terrorist nation", i.e. "a nation not aligned with the US regime"'s schoolgirls, you're a freedom fighter.
They're all the same person.
(How long till the world declares the US a "terrorist nation"?)
When and if they do they will be many decades late
The left/"socialists", generally, these days, seem to believe pretty strongly in individuals liberty. They aren't the same rank hypocrites who crow and cry foul every chance they get, only to violate those same principles as soon as it's convenient.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_Wall_Street#Government_...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kiriakou
The “left” as a whole, whether you mean left ultras or left-liberals, generally do not respect individual freedoms in my experience. They redefine liberty to exclude rights they don’t believe in (the right does as well).
Polls have shown that the public as a whole, including the left, is becoming more hostile towards many individual liberties, especially freedom of speech. Even more concerning, support for political violence is gradually climbing.
Socialists are a mixed bag. In my experience, the more educated they are, the more they publicly espouse support for individual liberties, at least during academic discussions. But there’s a disturbing trend of “joking” about rights violations in casual conversation, mirroring the same trend on the right. Still, the DSA (for instance) seems to be gradually improving its official stances, although there is still work to do.
Everyone knows that the right is terrible on civil liberties, but that’s no reason to excuse the left.
No, they were not a brazen and stupid as trump, but they violated nearly as many civil liberties.
Obama executed a US citizen on terror charges without a trial, for starters
Anyone willing to line their pockets, it seems.
Don't worry, Trump and Musk will export their model to Europe. They guys and gals who were easily bought by Russia when it had money will very gladly side with the richest and gaudiest men on Earth.
But maybe that's just wishful thinking, it's not as though there weren't fascists about, they just didn't have the same funding before.
Can't make it real
If you're not American, and have even a shred of moral fiber left in your body, I really recommend you don't come here. What awaits you in terms of Silicon Valley jobs is a choice of AI labs, AI wrapper startups, and Andreessen Horowitz-funded startups; this is 99% of fresh SV jobs. Beauties like Flock, Toka (hacking security cam footage), Doublespeed (AI influencer account botting), Civitai (30k deepfake models of real women), Cluely (cheat on everything), Coverd (betting on your bills), Cheddr (TikTok of sports betting), Ex-Human (have "adult" chats with bots mimicking underage celebs), and another hundred or so of such lovely products. All of these are a16z backed, and their tendrils are in every SV company out there. Stay in your country. If you're too thirsty for money to stay but still have some morals left, go to China, they're pretty much single-handedly driving the only thing left that gives humanity a chance of avoiding extinction; the transition to renewable energy.
[0] https://www.npr.org/2026/03/25/nx-s1-5752369/ice-surveillanc...
Besides, it's only capitalism of you take on investors. You can charge money to solve a problem without summoning the demon.
Then someone willing to "summon the demon" will outgrow you and you'll end up working for them.
You can't fix capitalism period. The issue was never a lack of "good guys" building "meaningful things". The economic pressures always push out the naive in favor of the ruthless. And wealth gets concentrated in fewer and fewer hands until a class of oligarchs emerges that is powerful and psychopathic enough to take over the government and dismantle democracy for personal gains.
Happened in Germany, happening in America right now.
It's like they say: if there is a golfer at a table and 10 other people talking with him, you have 11 golfers.
I've had people tell me with a straight face that broken windows make one group just as bad as the group threatening violence based on ethnic lines. I don't get it.
and with that hayek setup, the property isore important than the life. you can be tortured, imprisoned and murdered, but as long as you still own a factory, you are a free man.
its silly, buts its the driving idea behind western culture for the past 40-50 years or so
Generally no, Antifa is not a violent organization in the same way that violent white-nationalist/neonazi groups are violent.
Antifa hasn't shot up a church/synagogue/mosque. Followers of modern fascist sects have.
You're either willfully ignorant or purposefully biased to consider them on the same playing field.
You are a HN user. Saying “HN users have enacted physical violence” and implying it is all of them is just utter bs.
> "When fascism returns, it will not say, 'I am fascism.' No, it will say, 'I am anti-fascism.'" – Ignazio Silone
>Are the US' well-regulated militias gearing up as we speak?
If they are, it's because ICE is looking for recruits.
“Narcissism has more in common with self-hatred than with self-admiration.” - Christopher Lasch
“The four core pillars of narcissism, as defined by clinical psychologist Dr. Ramani Durvasula, are a lack of empathy, grandiosity, a chronic sense of entitlement, and a constant need for admiration and validation” - America Psychology Association (possibly a global terrorist organization)
If you look at the govt announcement it cites:
>multiple high-profile instances of breaking into defense infrastructure and British military installations, and causing millions of dollars’ worth of damage to military equipment. Palestine Action has promoted its violent, criminal, and terrorist acts on social media, encouraging the use of similar tactics internationally, including within the United States and along the U.S.-Mexican border.
and the like https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/sb0616
So it's breaking in and destroying stuff which is illegal, not the far left.
Terrorist groups are more traditionally defined as an organized groups that use terrorism as a military tactic to achieve their goals.
noblogs.org never used such tactics nor supported them.
If we call anyone a terrorist, if they have at least one view similar to those who did terrorist acts, we only need 2 quite specific terrorist acts to cover all earths population.
>Autistici Inventati [...] exclusively provides its services to vetted individuals, collectives, and groups it perceives to be aligned with its ideology, including to sanctioned terrorist organizations...
Or do you even pay attention? "Far left" has been illegal in the past and trump clearly wants it so again
Maybe. But I don't think so. It literally doesn't matter what reasons the government said, and the reasons the government said have no relation to facts or reality. What does matter is that the government doesn't like this group and put them on a certain list.
IANAL but the common understanding of the situation would be: You can't as an ISP prevent malicious actors from using your service, but you do can assist the government - in this case the German - to hand over the data to help assist law enforcement. If state-department's claims are true, did noblogs.org do so?
The digital markets act makes liability pretty clear. Basically a takedown notice law.
So this is the US government acting at the behest of neonazis: " According to one anti-fascist research group, “Some of the most well-known NoBlogs sites belong to researchers who solely report on far-right hate and radicalization, never doing anything aside from showing you what exists.” " in their newest crusade generally championing the concept of fascism (which is what you get when you declare yourself anti-anti-fascist, as should be immediately evident to anyone with the ability to follow basica boolean logic).
Cool, cool.
History doesn't repeat, but it sure rhymes...
Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG". If this is not ZOG, then what is it?
It's literally true that most of the US government is Zionist. But "Zionist-Occupied Government" is an antisemitic conspiracy theory used by white supremacists with specific and incorrect beliefs about how Zionism works in the US and how it formed into what we're all facing today.
At least flat-earthers get a useful locally-true approximation of the shape of the Earth from their conspiracy theory.
... but balling that all up into "ZOG" just gives one a simplistic rabbit hole where "everything clicks" (ie it proves too much), and mostly written off by anyone else. And if it were to start being widely accepted, it will just fuel a reactionary dumpster fire like every broad-brush populist message inevitably does.
That is utter bullshit and you know it.
The US government has always been deathly afraid of anything left of what would be "conservative social democrats" in Europe - remember McCarthyism? The US certainly does not need Israel to tell it to hunt down leftists.
> Then you'll get your comments removed from this website if you mention the term "ZOG".
Because it's a ridiculous antisemitic conspiracy myth.
This perceived overlap of antisemitism and anti-zionism has been shown many times to be a false equivalence. It does nobody any good to conflate Zionism which is a very real fascist Israeli supremacy movement, with Semitism which refers to Jewishness regardless of culture or country.
As with many Fascist movements it is very much in the interest of those who follow the a Supremacy movement to conflate opposition of their movement with persecution of their culture.
No. Zionism at its core is just the opinion that there needs to be a state of Israel, to serve as a "last safe haven" for all Jews in the world.
Some of those criteria are that it must include Jerusalem, and it must be a Jewish ethnostate.
ZOG as a conspiracy is nuts but you can’t deny the influence AIPAC has on Congress. Zionists have a very powerful lobby. Then you have guys like Fetterman who are making Israel their core issue.
This proves once again who runs the US Gov, it is not the voters but the ultra-rich.
A long time ago I had the realization that the primary information flow in democracy isn't the few bits from each citizen to the government, but rather it's from the candidates/parties to the people making them think they wanted any of the ensuing shit because they "chose" it. And I'd say Grumpism has thoroughly proven that out. The people who used to be your average conservatives are now radical reactionary destructionists, and if you nudge them to ponder their former values they wince at thinking too hard and then get angry at you.
Edit: lol @ the guy claiming anti-fascists are "intolerant" while all of today's leading technofascists are crowing about how empathy is self-defeating. so, we are supposed to eschew empathy, unless it is for fascist ideals? sure, technofascists, whatever you say.
You might want to read up on Karl Popper and the Paradox of Tolerance [1] as well as on some German history.
Don't give a single inch to fascists or you will get destroyed. Hell, just look at the sorry state of the current GOP after it let the Tea Party looners in. These guys and the "birthers" paved the ground for MAGA to enter the scene, and nowadays what used to be the "moderate" Republicans is all but gone. The new "moderate" are considered to be people like Marjorie Taylor Greene, just because they have broken with Trump.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Trump ran as a republican because he thought it would be easier to sway republicans to vote for him because they're sheeple, and he's on camera saying that and everyone just memory-holed it.
If MAGA is pro-economy, why is MAGA kicking out immigrants? Immigrants are more entrepreneurial than US-born citizens. [2] [3]. Why the tariffs? Tariffs are a tax on American consumers.
The line of reasoning you present is just completely wrong. Is it because MAGA are wrong/ignorant? Or because MAGA are racist and fascists?
[1] https://www.aeaweb.org/research/chart/incarceration-immigran...
[2] https://news.mit.edu/2022/study-immigrants-more-likely-start...
[3] https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/report/fortune-50...
EDIT, sadly the reply is flagged, so I will post my response to it below:
>Don't conflate immigrants with illegal immigrants first off.
The analyses I presented don't make a distinction between legal and illegal immigrants; the facts they state still stand.
>Second, we KNOW a lot of those people they're picking up committed crimes. Murder, rape, etc. They all have charges and are queued for deportation.
And if your concern is about crime, you would want the law enforcement resources that are being used to pick up immigrants to be used to pick up US-born citizens, because US born citizens are more criminal.
>Illegal immigrants are a strain on the healthcare system, education system, policing, social services. It's a simple fact that every country knows.
Wrong again. Immigrants use less of all of those social resources, except public school. Public schools are strained because us-born students are more likely to attend private schools, and public schools are generally funded on a student headcount basis. [4] [5] [6] [7]
>And Tariffs are a consumption tax on if they buy those foreign products. I'll take a trade war if it means getting drug prices and many other trade inequalities down (which he did). Turns out our allies are bigger assholes than our adversaries.
Typically, as reported, there aren't many American substitutes for the foreign-produced goods that have been taxed on tariffs. Just to use a very recent example, American cars now have their canadian auto parts slapped with a 50% tariff. Am I supposed to source my own american parts and then build my own car? What the hell is wrong with you?
>But nah, Democrats must be right about everything. It's impossible to be wrong. Republicans are evil and ignorant is what you probably hear.
Living in a red state, and having many MAGA family members, I am sympathetic to listening to the arguments made by MAGA. However, their claims fall apart when you start looking at facts and data, as I believe I have amply demonstrated through our back-and-forth.
[4] https://www.cato.org/briefing-paper/immigrant-native-consump...
[5] https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/key-fact...
[6] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014704117
[7] https://www.kff.org/racial-equity-and-health-policy/potentia...
> Don't conflate immigrants with illegal immigrants first off.
When that entirely what MAGA is doing. I always wondered how they had these numbers for supposedly illegal immigrants and everytime I look into it the number conveniently lines up with the legal immigrants and legal asylum seekers.
Or that time Loomer said the alligators at Alligator Alcatraz were getting 65 million meals which is conveniently the Hispanic population in the US.
These people think that just because they don’t like these other people, those other people are here illegally, and then they claim they get no due process either.
I have no problems with legal immigrants. I married into a first generation family of immigrants, and like everyone else my ancestors were immigrants to this country.
It does a disservice to conflate the two. Immigrants worked hard to be here, illegal immigrants are a drain on everyone, including legal immigrants.
instead of assertions, facts please
Unfortunately our public services are overloaded by illegal immigrants, this is needed.
And what does that have to do with GP conflating stats meant for immigrants with illegal immigrants?
Simply regurgitating my response back to me and claiming my own situational awareness is the problem is not the flex you think it is.
You're revealing your malformed politics by suggesting I have a "side". I can imagine what "side" you think I'm on. Grow up. There are a lot of serious things going on today and we need to take them seriously. You can do better.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DFFIJCooXPy/
Pictured in the link: zick, pichai, musk, cook, bezos all AT TRUMP'S INAUGURATION. Not pictured, but still a supporter: Thiel.
It's also overgeneralized to the point where it may not point at any useful shared characteristics at all, but that's not what makes it a slur.
In the original sense, probably yes. In the more current sense, no.
The original sense was something like "unanswerable libel, especially around group characteristics". The most common present sense is closer to something like "disparaging epithet aimed at a group, meant to have universalized negative and/or libellous connotations". A slur in this sense roughly means "a member of this group, which, I chose this particular word as a way of reminding you, makes the person despicable and omniwrong regardless of anything else". That's what "pejorative" means.
If you call TESCREAL, or a component of it, a "cult", you're first evoking the idea that anybody who falls under "TESCREAL" umbrella is already bad (as all right-thinking folk already perceive). Then you're perhaps proposing or emphasizing a particular way everybody should think they're bad (it's a cult)".
It's also wrong and dumb. Some of the components of "TESCREAL" may have shared weird beliefs, and even shared weird social rituals. That's not what a cult is, not even close. Not in modern speech outside of academic history and folklore. And even if they were cults, they would not all be the same cult.
> Or calling out the outsized, malign impact they're having?
That kind of frothing is a better example of the original sense, if still not of the new sense. Vague imprecations that can't be defended against.
Nobody identifies with "TESCREAL". If you look at all the people who do identify with any of the labels that go into it, you end up with a pretty diverse group. It's even possible that that diverse group has more fascists in it than there are in the general population. Fringe groups tend to have fringe members who are members of other fringe groups. But fascism is neither a majority characteristic nor a defining one.
By the way, "fascist" itself is a slur when used to mean "anybody whose politics I don't like in certain ways", or when used to imply that fascists are universally bad or wrong in some way not directly related to their fascism.
"Fascist" is not (usually) a slur when applied to say, Elon Musk. He's actually in the group; his publicly avowed politics are largely compatible with Mussolini's version (with probably some minor quibbles about business independence)... and even more compatible with Umberto Eco's definition, which is what a lot of people go for these days. More importantly, when people call Musk a fascist, they are pretty clearly calling him out for the particular stuff he has personally said or done to earn that particular label, not about some unrelated issue. And most of them are doing it in conjunction with saying, or at least alluding to, something identifiable and substantive about policies, not just throwing it out there in an unrelated context.
If you were arguing with Musk about the best flavor of ice cream, and you suddenly came out with "What do you know about ice cream, anyway, you fascist", then you'd be using it more as a slur.
As another comparison, if you called Musk a "rockspider", that would be a slur. The word carries specific meaning; beyond marking "a member of this group", it adds "of which, I chose to use this particular word as a way of reminding you, you are supposed to automatically dislike all members". Also, insofar as it does have a well-defined meaning in terms of who falls in the group, you'd obviously be stretching to apply it to him, which would make it especially obvious that you were trying to use it as a per se insult. Actually I think he may be far enough outside the group that the insult wouldn't even land; no actual Boer ancestry, and too upper class to boot. I'm not up on South African slang.
(I also think they're nerds.)
Maybe working under ruthless, hierarchical corporate structures all your life breaks your brain a little.
Imagine every time you make a submission the same commenter submits a reply with only a different thread URL, no title, no story URL, and the misnomer "[dupe]"
But the story URLs are different, not duplicates
It makes no sense
This site has constant repetition of URLs, topics and comments
It has 250+ pages of active stories at any one time. That's potentially 250+ different discussions
There is nothing in the design to prevent "duplication", nothing in the guidelines, and nothing in the proactive moderation
HN is described as a news aggregator. It should be expected in a news aggregator, users may submit stories by different authors published at different URLs offering different coverage of the same news topics. If the site operator wanted to prevent this for some reason, it could. HN does not
It seems the algorithm actually promotes such stories. Hence this sub-thread
Discussion on HN is generally highly repetitive, unoriginal and filed with meme-like, and sometimes toxic, comments. Many folks complain about it, others might like it. Every user is different. It's not for any one user to determine what any other user should or should not see; readers can make up their own minds
The majority of HN users do not participate in "discussion". They either read the stories and/or the replies. Some might only visit HN periodically. Perhaps they are not following HN discussions, they have no idea what has been discussed earlier and no time to find out or reason to care. The majority of HN stories have zero replies, i.e., no "discussion". It stands to reason that some users read the stories, i.e., the news, irrespective of "discussion". Upvotes on these stories are potential evidence; unless these users are just upvoting titles
Alleged "duplication" of discussion is irrelevant in these submissions because there is no discussion. Stories are not just "discussion topics". They are news, for readers who are interested in reading news
Finally, (real) duplicate URLs are commonly found in submissions that never get labeled "[dupe]". These are explicitly allowed on a discretionary basis. The "[dupe]" tag is inconsistently applied and cannot be relied on
Nothing to do with the urls, but the duplicate discussion topics. The site in fact does not have constant repetition of URLs, topics and comments (within similar timeframe). 250+ active discussions. All unique.
Stuff moves pretty fast around here and you can miss it. It's more about keeping things fresh and not repeating discussions over and over. And additionally stopping some of us from having to see the same story over and over.
Nothing in the design because that's what mods are for. Mods, and submitters looking out for the well-being of the site!
Your repeated submissions amounted to spamming the same topic while most coverage brings nothing new to the discussion that warrants a separate thread. Why split up the conversation only to have it all duplicated and impact the 'freshness' of the site with discussions already had hours to days earlier?
If you've been around enough it's weird that you're not clearer on this. Striving to keep the feed fresh and discussion together helps us all, you could do better to contribute that way.
The right is far more angry and violent. https://ccjs.umd.edu/feature/umd-led-study-shows-disparities... https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/right-wing-extremist-v... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9335287/
And not over any good cause either, just violence for violence sake, no principles, no stakes.
These people arrested trying to assassinate 47? Either right or neutral. The presidents own people.
The right as always is desperately relying on projection. Their media systems blare that the cities are unlivable hell, that social order is breaking down, that antifa is burning cities down. The pitiful lies to deluded base, low engagement that they are, happy to be baited, laps it up. The right are insurrectionist psychos, are anti-social maniacs deluded and violent, cheered on by fascist maniac leaders intent on bedlam and strife.
I'd be angry if I wasn't so disappointed how you and millions of others who think like you can be utterly allergic to logic, but I'm not angry. I pity you. I pity you because you're a victim of fascist brainwashing. It must make you feel so helpless to have to ideologically align with a child rapist and his cronies.