Cacao trees are the most difficult plant I have grown, they are much more finicky than many others, and I almost only grow tropical or subtropical plants (in a temperate climate, in France and now Belgium).
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
xxmarkuski
I recently tried "ChoViva" it's a chocolate substitute made from sunflower seeds. Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant. They process the sunflower seeds in a way that achieves a taste and texture very close to chocolate. In a way, I prefer it over chocolate because it has no caffeine and has a slightly compacter texture that does not stick around in the mouth for so long. Really interesting. ChoViva is just the brand. They only do B2B so it is used as part of the supply chain for sweets like peanut butter cups.
tarsierscripter
Coffee has very similar processing to chocolate, can produce similar flavours with the right amount of roasting, but is not even close to the same thing due to the dramatically different fat content (both quantity and type of fat).
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
LinguaBrowse
They sell ChoViva here in Japan, in Aeon supermarkets. I've tried the「チョコか？ 」bar [1] and really enjoy it. Given how most "chocolate" on sale these days is actually compound chocolate, it's very competitive on taste. It's also affordable, at ¥322 ($2.04), post-tax, for an 80g bar; unlike GOVOCE [2], a chocolate substitute based on burdock root, which costs ¥700 ($4.43), post-tax, for just 52g (and tastes less good in my opinion).
I'm more into dark chocolate, though, so I hope ChoViva start selling a bitter version over here. It seems they have a formulation for it [3], though I've not seen it available in a bar format.
80% alike is to my mind dramatically different and would not be a substitute at all. I also don't think 95% cocoa chocolate is a substitute for 80% cocoa chocolate etc. as even the small difference results in a dramatically different product and that's the simplest variation possible for chocolate.
RestartKernel
While that 20% is a dealbreaker for me personally, a friend of mine prefers it over real chocolate. So I suppose the difference can go both ways. Anecdotally, if you enjoy very milky, sugary chocolate, you'll probably like these alternative chocolates just fine.
technothrasher
I'd definitely say the 20% is doing a lot of heavy lifting. Anybody who has eaten raw and roasted cacao nibs should be able to easily identify the same flavors pervasively in chocolate, and which are from the raw cacao and which are from the roasting. Although the more sugar, dairy, and other adjuncts in the chocolate, the less the cacao flavors come through.
ASalazarMX
> Turns out 80% of the chocolate flavor comes from the processing, including fermentation and roasting and not from the plant
As someone who has roasted cacao beans and made their own chocolate, I feel slightly offended by this... yet, I have to concede that roasted beans share a lot of qualities. Cheap coffee used to have (maybe still has?) roasted garbanzo beans as filler, and it wasn't that bad. Old-style roasteries used to roast peanuts the same way they roasted coffee: a very tasty snack, and as aromatic as the coffee beans.
fouc
I was about to write s/caffeine/theobromine/ when I double-checked and learned that theobromine is a metabolite of caffeine. Mind blown.
Ive heard of this method over here in Europe some years ago, though do not know if these process gained any traction regarding regular bought food brands?
mapt
See also the numerous coffee substitutes like chicory and roasted barley.
The original "Cafe mocha" was apparently just a variety of coffee bean that tasted sort of like hot chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_coffee_bean . Depending on the roast, you can cold brew coffee to emphasize the chocolatey components as well.
LinguaBrowse
Chicory "coffee" is lovely. I can't say it reminds me of coffee particularly, but it's a great option as a caffeine-free bitter drink.
wjnc
Can I just add that this commercial website is great. It's informative. It has lots of information. It's very clear to read. And the blog just breathes loving the product.
nullderef
I just loved seeing the guy so happy in the pic. The man is enjoying his cocoa tree.
seesthruya
Unfortunately, I first "pre-ordered" their machine in 2021. It has never gone into commercial production, and at this point I don't think it ever will.
autoexec
Perfectly readable without JS enabled too!
pvaldes
Just for the record, Spain produces Cacao since 2022, with the first 70 Kg of fully European Cacao on 2023. Courtesy of some cunning and patient sapiens. And it only toke 100 years of work.
eltondegeneres
This is notable because it's in an unheated greenhouse. Lots of botanical gardens around the world, like the Brooklyn Botanical Gardens in NYC, have fruit-bearing cacao trees in their (heated) tropical rooms.
pvaldes
In greenhouses also in South of Spain. With climate change roaring, more places in the North will be able to culture that. It takes a lot of time to grow and some talent to obtain the fruit but it could be possible. I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
markdown
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
bombela
After fermentation and roasting the seeds and removing the shell around the seeds it start to taste like chocolate. But even then it is still very bitter, and the texture is not great at all. It really needs to be finely ground to become palatable, otherwise it's a bit like a bitter chocolate flavored chalk. Extra cocoa butter is usually added for taste and melt in the mouth effect. Leaving extra raw defatted chocolate as a side effect, which is what is sold as cocoa cooking powder, to which you better add a lot of fat for taste.
nkrisc
The only part of the fruit you’d eat unprocessed is the pulp around the seeds. It’s pretty nice, but nothing extraordinary.
I don’t think anyone uses cacao seeds for anything except for processing.
IAmBroom
> I bet that it tastes 1000 times better than the processed cacao.
That's like assuming pure hydrogen tastes better than the oxidized stuff in water.
uxhacker
Until I saw this I was wondering where Switzerland and Belgium got there cocoa from, because I have never seen a tree growing in either country, and one is always hearing about Swiss and Belgium chocolate.
simtel20
They source from all of the globe's cacao growing regions
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
jaapz
That's because Rotterdam is Europe's largest sea port. About half of our exports are actually re-exports that don't have their origin in the Netherlands.
uxhacker
Then should it not be Ghanaian chocolate rather than Swiss?
simtel20
Part of the flavor is the bean, how the fruit is grown and harvested. Part is how its processed, fermented, and maybe roasted, but the final step is usually that it is then sold and processed - melanged and conched and mixed to a desired flavor profile, and then turned into a form that is edible. So who's to say, really.
kakacik
Then most of global products are made in China, including many Swiss Made (TM) or US made.
throwaway219450
Chocolate is a product made with cacao and other ingredients. But the best manufacturers declare the origin of their beans, which might be Ghana.
nkrisc
There is significant processing required to go from cacao to chocolate.
4gotunameagain
Ah yes, just like every battery is from Congo because of the cobalt ?
whatever1
I love chocolate.
But man some some times I wonder how desperately hungry were the people who made something edible out of the cocoa tree.
nvme0n1p1
I wouldn't have assumed they were desperately hungry. Maybe they were bored of eating the same thing every day and looking for some novelty.
simtel20
Well, the fruit is a lovely flavor. Once you learn that e.g. pomelo peel has a way to cook and be eaten, you realize the resourcefulness of our forebears and their quest for flavor and a full belly
picklesman
It really is an amazing flavour but so incredibly frustrating to eat due to how little there is of it!
(I’m talking about the pulp around the seeds, not the flesh right under the skin of the pod, which I’ve never tried eating)
CocoTerra
The pulp is delicious! There are suppliers that are starting to sell cocoa pulp, so now you can enjoy without all the work!
Cacao are OK to suck on (to get the pulp around the seeds), but the seeds themselves taste utterly vile.
foobarian
I imagine it's not too different from eating a spoonful of raw cocoa powder
picklesman
I disagree. After drying for a few days they just taste like unsweetened chocolate to me. Very similar to the cacao nibs I used to purchase, which are indeed just broken up seeds.
rusticpenn
Most seeds dont taste good unless they are processed right?
zorobo
Matter of taste.
I like eating cocoa beans.
Oddly, I cannot stand the smell of coffee.
ASalazarMX
Aztecs used cocoa beans as currency (in their case, money did grow on trees :), and drinking chocolate was reserved to the higher classes. Every time I see expensive food with gold leaves I'm reminded of that. Maybe they tried to eat money too?
NoMoreNicksLeft
I've never managed to get them taller than 10 inches. And this last year, no leaves at all... the tap root would emerge, but something always kills it quickly. Though, to be fair, those were from a grocery store pod (I think they refrigerate them during transport).
CocoTerra
The seeds can be very finicky at the early stage. Too much water and they rot; too little water and they dry and die. Since the seeds are sticking out of the dirt when you plant them, make sure to water the seeds and not just the surrounding dirt. Good luck!
I don't know which climate this gentleman lives in, but winter in France has been fatal to several of my trees simply because of the reduced ambient humidity due to needing heating in the house. None have survived more than three years.
There’s a reason chocolate that has other plant fats blended into it is considered a highly inferior product to chocolate containing only cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, and (optionally) milk. Cocoa butter’s melting temperature is just right for producing the intense, mouth-coating sensation of a good chocolate. Not to mention that cocoa butter carries much of the aroma compounds we love from chocolate.
I'm more into dark chocolate, though, so I hope ChoViva start selling a bitter version over here. It seems they have a formulation for it [3], though I've not seen it available in a bar format.
- [1] https://www.topvalu.net/tv-chococa/
- [2] https://www.ahjikan.co.jp/melburd_govoce/
- [3] https://choviva.com/products/schulte-dominoes-choviva-dark
As someone who has roasted cacao beans and made their own chocolate, I feel slightly offended by this... yet, I have to concede that roasted beans share a lot of qualities. Cheap coffee used to have (maybe still has?) roasted garbanzo beans as filler, and it wasn't that bad. Old-style roasteries used to roast peanuts the same way they roasted coffee: a very tasty snack, and as aromatic as the coffee beans.
The original "Cafe mocha" was apparently just a variety of coffee bean that tasted sort of like hot chocolate - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_coffee_bean . Depending on the roast, you can cold brew coffee to emphasize the chocolatey components as well.
The tree can not stand long periods of temperatures below 15 Celsius.
It does not. Cacao beans/seeds taste utterly vile. You couldn't imagine in your wildest dreams that the chocolate you buy in stores comes from those disgusting things.
There was a cacao plantation on the side of the road that I walked past every day after school when I was between 5 and 14yrs old. I'd always pick a few on the way home to break open a pod and suck on the beans. But if you accidentally bit into one, well /* insert face vomiting emoji */
I don’t think anyone uses cacao seeds for anything except for processing.
That's like assuming pure hydrogen tastes better than the oxidized stuff in water.
“For most people, tulips, windmills, and bike lanes spring to mind when they think of the Netherlands. But most people would be surprised to learn that the Netherlands ranks first in the world as an exporter of cocoa products, recently overtaking neighboring Germany.
The Netherlands recorded cocoa exports of 12.4 billion euros in 2025”
I would guess that’s a holdout from colonial times. Indonesia used to be a Dutch colony up till world war two. Might even date back to when there was a Dutch colony in Brazil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Brazil), but that page doesn’t mention cocoa, and I wouldn’t even know whether there was cocoa in Brazil at the time.
But man some some times I wonder how desperately hungry were the people who made something edible out of the cocoa tree.
(I’m talking about the pulp around the seeds, not the flesh right under the skin of the pod, which I’ve never tried eating)
https://cocoasupply.com/cacao-fruit-pulp-puree-nectar-pouche...