Leak Exposes 41,000 Homeland Security Workers–Including Undercover ICE Agents
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I.e they shouldn't be blamed if politicans force them to fight battles they think are unjust. If they are ordered to they don't have a choice its fight or go to miltary prison per UCMJ. Other jobs (law enforcement) are not like that. Generally speaking its quite unfair to double blame soldiers forcing them to fight unjust wars and than punish them for being forced into stupid wars. They can choose to not be soldiers but not everyone will be in a position economically to ignore the possible benefits. Miltary service is a strong path to escape poverty especially in the US.
Law enforcement is entirely different they are immune to judgement errors they make even if they kill someone. They have little accountablity, and often abuse of the law is just overlooked or covered up because they are the ones who enforce it. They don't even have to know how to do their job or law, if they mess up its someone elses problem due to qualifed immunity. Hence the craziness with the ICE they can violate rights with impunity and much of that has to due with the fact their oversight body is apparently just the president who says don't care about any law breaking.
Adding to this, if you're in the peacetime military and have a long contract, and congress or the executive orders the military to deploy somewhere, those soldiers won't even have much of a choice. As long as you're under contract, if the military says jump, most often all you can respond with is "how high?"
I also recognize that the US has perverted this concept countless times since with blatant imperialistic motives, it does however still not break the concept of a just responsive military force.
TL;DR: They're not selling their souls if they (mistakenly) trust elected officials to work for the will of the people and only deploy for just causes.
Fortunately the Nuremberg principles rescue us here. Following orders is no excuse for abdicating a moral responsibility.
Peace from who? Mexico? Canada? Which country is going to invade you?
All the American military does is bomb Middle Eastern countries and leave a huge mess. I do not believe US security is helped by bombing weddings and schools. I would even argue that it worsens it, by creating a bunch of people that lost their loved ones to those acts and that then turn to terrorism as a means of revenge.
Nobody's gonna invade the US, what a preposterous idea. This is precisely the fear based propaganda I'm talking about.
And to be clear, the US has abused the army for half a century for unjust causes, and I'm not defending that, but the concept of an army can be moral in the context of rivalling aggressive nations.
I’m not against employee names and contact info being made public. That’s no different than someone’s business card being passed around. What I worry about is that all DHS employees get lumped together indifferently by disgruntled individuals and harassed using the information made available.
People who are (rightfully) angry by ICE’s activities in recent deportations, wrongful detaining of US citizens, and misuse of force are going to begin harassing these employees indiscriminately. I’ll admit that I don’t care if they do it to anyone listed as employed under ICE, but some departments elsewhere in CBP have actual positive purposes. Customs agents who scan incoming goods for invasive species, for example, help prevent the destruction of domestic plants.
I guess we just have to see how this info is used and what the effects will be.
Second, too complicated security setups often result in trivially hackable global passwords and shit like that because turns out, there are very few people willing to daily rotate and remember 30 different cryptographically random 256-bit arrays.
Third, no matter how robust your security setup is, there will always be someone who finds a flaw in it, so a much better solution is to just do bare minimum and get insurance.
It's strange to be that so many security experts are completely detached from how humans actually act.
Instead they spend a huge chunk of their day logging into different services through a redirect via an SSO site. They don't have to have their password manager fill in new passwords each time. IME it doesn't actually save any time.
The advantage of SSO is the organization can ensure everyone is using the same security config. They can enforce a minimum password length for SSO. They can enforce 2FA for the SSO provider. Etc.
When we had local, properly integrated AD no one had to log into anything other than their computer.
The whole SSO / SAML thing is a huge regression in usability.
What always puzzles me about this stuff and critical infrastructure like nuclear powerplants, is why is an internal network connected to the public Internet at all?
If you have to connect it to the Internet, then why is it talking to unknown devices?
Trusting an SSO system, or anything with security sensitive data on the public internet presents an attack surface with untenable risk when your adversary is thousands of people with LLM tools.
It’s going to take a lot of this before people realise using someone else’s computer is a pretty fucking stupid idea.
I mean Entra and Okta got popped. That should have been the point companies looked at this risk and went nope.
Yes [1].
[1] https://www.flyingpenguin.com/a-simple-list-of-the-many-okta...
"Leaks" like this should just be a FoIA request. Anyone enforcing the law should have their face, and badge number, prominently shown at all times.
That's how we show that we aren't ashamed of our laws. Any time it takes a mask to do your job... you know you're doing something you ought not be doing.
I mean, they’re not wrong…
Spy on us, and we'll spy on you.
Poison us, and we'll poison you.
-- The East
This timeline is fucking _wild_.
Nixon literally won his election by promising national price controls. The people love economic relief, even just the promise is enough to win elections.
(and his approval would be the same mid 40s it always was if gas prices were reasonable)
This is the problem when your entire identity and principles boil down to "doing what the social superior tells you to".
Trump won the popular vote in 2024 [1].
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_presidentia...
Those people voted for the lies, knowing full well that they were lies, and then are acting surprised that the lies are lies.
He’s a pariah everywhere on earth, most especially at home. The sad part is the democrats couldn’t mount a successful campaign against someone so unfit to lead. Now there’s nothing left to do but clean up the mess and undo the terrible harm he has caused and repair what can be once he’s finally out of our hair.
Yes. Then the party that did that got trounced. Then nobody learned any lessons.
Biden’s inflation peaked worse than anything Trump has done. But telling voters you’re only slapping them after the other guy punched them is about as effective as you’d think. (There is zero sense of urgency from the White House around this either.)
Current inflation is a fuckup [1]. Pretending it doesn’t exist is a fuckup. They aren’t unprecedented fuckups. But they are consistently punished.
Inflation is exceptionally high right now for a developed country. It’s feeding into cost-of-living issues that are animating voters.
[1] https://www.bls.gov/cpi/ 7.2 annualized in September
I'm sorry. Is this Reddit? Sure reads like it
You had no hard numbers. I’m providing them. How aren’t you following that connection?
And how did that work out for Biden?
Voters don’t like inflation. Blowing up energy prices by launching a war of choice while shutting down domestic production because windmills isn’t smart policy.
"We did vote". Except that an extraordinary number of people that could vote, didn't. So when somebody says "vote, people", they're obviously talking to those people that chose not to vote.
This would think out the representation significantly, and applied to presidential voting would be rather dificult. The highest share of eligible voters in US history to support a US President is 42.6% for Ulysees S. Grant (Harrison and McKinley both close behind with +40%). Not one President has ever broken the 50% of eligble voters mark, and even those presidents that won in relative landslides in the EC (Washington, Monroe, Roosevelt, Reagan, Nixon) all had shares of the eligible votes that were in the 30%’s.
And what if there are, say, ten candidates?
To be clear, I'm not excusing him. I think he was very cool indeed but ultimately a weak president that lacked in leadership before and after his term
This is a dogwhistling incel username.
There should never ever be a masked police force in this country, it's disgusting
Think about all the things we've written off in the past two years and faded from the news
Like military helicopters landing on a city building and them blowing the doors off all the apartments dragging everyone from their apartments
And all bets are off for the next two years, looks like Dems will get the Senate but even then they can't stop the scorched-earth that is coming
more like he started 1000 other fires, several each week if not a new one each day to make far worse problems
It's not just the most corrupt administration, it's the most chaos and definitely by design
btw all investigations dropped for the execution of two citizens, I mean that's definitely not fine with anyone, just way too many other problems going on now at the same time
well there's no statute of limitations on murder at least, so 800 more days
This assumes The Other Side will do anything if they do get into power. My prediction: A milquetoast moderate leads the (D)'s and declares: "In the interest of unity and moving forward, we will not go after anyone in the previous administration. Let us all hold hands and get past this with minimal drama... They have pinkey promised they will never behave this way again when they get to power, and we believe them."
This was mostly Merrick Garland being a muppet.
As long as the sides keep reducing common ground, the farther away from government for the people, by the people we go.
The adult in the room decides to promote common ground, and gives 75% of the cookie to A and 25% to B.
Quote in question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50267521
I don't know what this is referencing
Edit: what the fuck https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/helicopters-tear-gas-b...
That goes to the DOJ, which of course means nothing happens, at least for next 800 days
[0] https://rollcall.com/2019/05/08/just-where-is-this-secret-ho...
Maybe this is such an emergency that it's worth the risk. But the risk is extremely high; if you do it to them, even with the best of reasons, they are going to do it back to you for any reason they can think of.
Plus they will do it anyway. There is no shame or honor regulating their behavior.
Accountability is what was missed last time and is the only way forward.
What you're saying is that "we" shouldn't enforce the law because "they" will break the law in response.
Aside from being inherently morally bankrupt, they'rw already breaking the law.
But in terms of if its ever appropriate for law enforcement to wear masks, isnt the question if its ever possible to threaten a law enforcement officers safety who isnt doing something wrong?
The FEDs wear masks in cartel operations all the time and that seems fine.
https://kotaku.com/umamusume-pretty-derby-cosplay-clara-tan-...
> As she hits the sidewalk, Tan hears what she describes as “a godawful crack” come from her foot, and then realizes she’s being cuffed behind her back. “I’m being kidnapped and I have no idea who these men are,” Tan writes. She’s dragged to an unmarked SUV, thrown in the back, and claims to have heard one of the men say, “This could all have been avoided if you’d just come quietly.”
Opus should make quick work of it. Also cross reference with police misconduct and use of force databases.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49927034
https://policedata.org/
Now that this data has been leaked, identities can be correlated with facial recognition, gait analysis, and other biometrics to conclusively identify the agents who committed crimes. Much of the video footage shows agents flagrantly breaking the law, abusing power, violating the rights of citizens and noncitizens alike.
Now that his leak has occurred, criminal ICE agents will be brought to justice for many of the crimes committed already, and the data will also inform the prosecution of crimes they will likely commit during the rest of Trump's term in office. Many of the crimes are violations of state law, so there is nothing the executive branch can do to stop the prosecutions.
You can see fate of Guantamo's officers and their chain of command. As far as I remember, nobody was really punished, several people were dismissed, but with full pension.
I do. Guantanamo wasn't killing American citizens.
Come again? If you have umbrage against antifa, surely you’re pro fascist?
> Most Americans remember how we couldn't even question COVID, DEI or kneeling for blacks and support law enforcement efforts
What do they even have anything to do with each other, except for them being right-wing talking points?
Just because they call themselves "antifa" doesn't mean its accurate. If the nazis referred to themselves as the "free puppies for everyone and world peace organization", it would not change anything about the morality of their party or the acts committed by them, despite the name.
The leak was via a compromised Okta SSO login (why anyone still uses them is a complete mystery to me).
The Techdirt article also links to the searchable front end to the dump.
https://icepi.cx/
Not really.
Having said that, I couldn’t see the full article on Wired. I don’t have an account and I suspect many don’t. I could see it via archive.is.
So - while I might agree that secretive domestic organizations like MI5 should not exist and sunlight is good for government, I feel for the families of the folks that might catch a bullet because of this.
I'll say the same thing that no one with access to a microphone said during the 2013 NSA data leaks:
What makes you think that the Bad Guys didn't already have access to this information? The folks that should have detected this clearly didn't. [0] Given that the Good Guys didn't learn about this until it was made public, neither they nor we have any idea of knowing how many Bad Guys have been siphoning off this data and for how long.
[0] In this specific incident, Okta appears to be claiming that there has been no breach despite claims that it is the source of the information. Back in 2013 -given that the NSA would often claim something that would be quickly countered by the publication of yet another leaked document- it was pretty clear that the NSA had little idea of what data had been released to the press.
Of course it’s possible some bad guys had this. But probably not all of them.
EDIT: I would also not equate these leaks to the NSA leaks in terms of resources and sophistication required to know about the NSA programs vs potential public access on the open internet with this one. Resources and intelligence required seems quite a higher bar, but that’s just me being an armchair quarterback.
...what exactly do you imagine the Bad Guys would do with the information that they've likely been siphoning off of the systems of ICE and -in the past- the NSA? Do you imagine that they'd be exclusively distributing it via Sneakernet? Just like the Good Guys, the Bad Guys also have access to IT guys who know how to set up a login portal... and the well-resourced ones are totally capable of setting up things akin to SIPRNet.
I’m not making a good guy / bad guy judgment here FWIW. I do, however, find it less likely a smaller scale non-state operation would bother hacking a government agency or buying info on the open market. Sounds like it’s a higher priority than I thought.
Makes sense for larger orgs at higher levels - but I admit my mental model didn’t think about parallel private attempts to exploit, sell, use and otherwise secure comms. It was a blind spot. Seemed too leaky and obvious given the incentives to leak information - but I clearly don’t understand bad guys very well.
Making lame excuses for "the good guys" reinforces that these people are doing good. They arent.
Your excuse will be used against you as soon as it's convenient to them.
Anyway - I just wanted to point out that these things can have consequences in the real world for people that aren’t necessarily the evil people you paint a picture of in your head. This isn’t a “oh just a few bad apples” thing - on the contrary that agency is quite rotten and should be disbanded.
Not a value judgment. Just sayin’ that this dump is 53+ certified undercover legal names out in the open.
Know that you don’t have to bend the knee to work for the government. You still have your oath, your union, and the knowledge that this ends in two years. Many have left, but not all. Those who stayed don’t necessarily agree or like what is happening.